Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

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Should the Edmonton Police Hate Crimes unit arrest Bill Whatcott to prevent the distribution of "Ed Stelmach and anal warts?"

Poll runs till Tue Jan 16, 2046 12:59 am

Yes
2
14%
No
12
86%
Unsure
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Total votes : 14

Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

Postby Banned_from_FD » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:00 pm

ya, Ben is alright 8-)
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Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

Postby Saucy Hot Tabasco » Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:45 pm

\"Bill Whatcott\" wrote:Saucy Hot Tobasco
Nonsense! When you appoint moderators they also have a say in the matter. The posts should have been moved to a private admin discussion area and debated amongst the owner and moderators.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion. At the end of the day I paid the money for this site and I have the ban controls. If I ask for posts not to be deleted, I expect them not to be deleted regardless of how strongly you think otherwise. The thread that was deleted was no threat to this site or anyone else. There were some opinions and comments that were less than flattering. They were all fair game and I wanted them here. Now they are gone. If you want your site moderated by someone who won't listen to you have at it. This site will be administrated quite differently than that I can assure you.......


You're far too heavy_handed & dictatorial with your method of resolving(?) a problem that you yourself created by not being receptive to ideas from your managers.

Ideas that would promote harmony between the owner and managers.

Albeit that's your right.

My idea is the logical solution to this issue.
I don't know what posts were deleted but I have faith Ben was looking out for the welfare of this forum.

Perhaps though, the posts should have been moved into a private arena and open to discussion amongst the owner and moderators as to whether they should stand or not.


Ben had a good idea, too. One that coincides with my way of running a forum when there are managers involved.
You really need an admin forum so you can keep record of these things without everything staying up on the boards. That would resolve most of these conflicts between the privacy of the members and the desire to keep a record of everything.

I think it's been a suggestion floating around since just about the beginning. I know there have been many times I have wished that there was one.


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Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

Postby Bill Whatcott » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:55 pm

Saucy
You're far too heavy_handed & dictatorial with your method of resolving(?) a problem that you yourself created by not being receptive to ideas from your managers.

Ideas that would promote harmony between the owner and managers.

Albeit that's your right.


You haven't been here so how would you know? Evol8 and I consult about most everything and we work together very well.

We believe our former mod Ben committed a bannable offense and after further consultation we decided he is a genuine friend inspite of his decision to delete a thread we did not want deleted and we have decided to keep him as a valued member. Indeed he is our friend and we recognize his loyalty and many good intentions but we will not reinstate him as mod and it is our right not to do so.

As for you saucy you aren't here much and I don't really need you criticizing this board, the admins and the way we manage it.

9. Disrupting the Board
Continually criticizing the board, insulting mods and admin, challenging our house rules in open forum, etc...... will lead us to the conclusion you are not happy here and we will ban you and send you elsewhere. This board is a free service and not a right. The admin does not need the headache of dealing with perpetually disgruntled and angry posters. Constructive criticism of the board and suggestions are tolerated and can be posted in the Friendly Place if your goal is to actually offer advice on making FNA an even better place to post.


If you want to come for occasional visits thats fine, but when you come please talk about whatever political, moral, religious, life, issue you wish, from whatever perspective you hold, but please don't just show up with no respect and think you can talk down the admins. I don't need the headache and I will limit such headache causing speech in this forum.
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Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

Postby Ben Kenobi » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:40 am

Well I see Bill's mission to preach to the heathens is so important to him that he would overlook Christians, and ban them wherever possible.

Good luck Bill, I won't be back.

This site had a purpose which I fought for right from the very site. Now, it's purpose is 'free speech' not social conservativism.

I can find many other sites just like this one, and I think you've made a big mistake.

There were alternatives, you made the wrong one here.
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Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

Postby Bill Whatcott » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:45 am

\"Ben Kenobi\" wrote:Well I see Bill's mission to preach to the heathens is so important to him that he would overlook Christians, and ban them wherever possible.

Good luck Bill, I won't be back.

This site had a purpose which I fought for right from the very site. Now, it's purpose is 'free speech' not social conservativism.

I can find many other sites just like this one, and I think you've made a big mistake.

There were alternatives, you made the wrong one here.


Your choice....

It was possible to ban you and I chose not to.

Instead I said....

We believe our former mod Ben committed a bannable offense and after further consultation we decided he is a genuine friend inspite of his decision to delete a thread we did not want deleted and we have decided to keep him as a valued member. Indeed he is our friend and we recognize his loyalty and many good intentions but we will not reinstate him as mod and it is our right not to do so.


Christians are free to share the Gospel here. I certainly will. But I am not interested in your vision of deleting every thread you found disagreeable. I asked you not to do that and you did it anyways. You said you would live with the consequence. Obviously the consequence is you will no longer be moderator. This is not dictatorial. This is the logical response to someone who felt they knew better and disregarded the wishes of the owner of this site.

Anyways your call Ben. As disappointed and angry as Evolution8 and I were (as you deleted posts I sorely wanted to keep) we forgave you and rescinded our ban of you. If you wish to leave its your call. Democracy means you come and go as you choose. We were fair to you. More than fair as you deleted things you weren't supposed to before. Inspite of your pity party you should grow up and realize you were not fair to us.
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Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

Postby paisley_cross » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:03 am

\"Ben Kenobi\" wrote:This site had a purpose which I fought for right from the very site. Now, it's purpose is 'free speech' not social conservativism.


They are not mutually exclusive. If fact I would suggest that given how free speech is under attack from a number of sides in Canada I would suggest the defining difference between liberalism and conservatism is that the former believe in censorship while the latter do not.
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Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

Postby zip.com » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:28 am

\"Ben Kenobi\" wrote:Well I see Bill's mission to preach to the heathens is so important to him that he would overlook Christians, and ban them wherever possible.

Good luck Bill, I won't be back.

This site had a purpose which I fought for right from the very site. Now, it's purpose is 'free speech' not social conservativism.

I can find many other sites just like this one, and I think you've made a big mistake.

There were alternatives, you made the wrong one here.


Ben you are making a mistake by not staying on as a normal contributor. Being an administrator has certain constraints, in case you didn't know. You can't really voice your opinion as well as just being a poster.

Being a moderator means you have to stay out of the thick of things. You can't really enter into a good, solid debate with your opinions or true feelings BECAUSE that is not done by moderators nor adminstrators.

They have to be neutral in order to enfore rules. What fun is that???

I have to say I was rather miffed when I saw that Bill had chose Banned to be a moderator??? What a nerve! He's a pagan in every digusting sense of that word (even though I still like him :-) )

I thought "hmmm, so he wouldn't even ask me and I'm a catholic. I could do just as good a job as he does, probably even better."

But then I started thinking about the debating factors and being a moderator or administrator does not lend itself to freedom of posting your own thoughts -- within the board rules of course.

I decided I wouldn't want to be one anyway, I like to freely debate issues and get down right dirty - within reason, of course! :mrgreen:

Anyway, I will not thank Banned right now. It remains to be seen what he will do with this new found "authority".

Ben you took that authority of moderator and abused it. You don't delete posts when you are told not to by the owner -- think of it as a "job". Would you do something your boss told you not to do because you thought you knew better? You would lose your job, if you did.

Anway, to leave because of hurt feelings is childish. I've had my feelings run over and it felt like a mack truck, but I've stayed to contribute to the site in as positive a way as I think.

When the time comes that I feel I can't contribute here in a positive way or completely disagree on the way the site is being run -- I will leave.
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Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

Postby Bill Whatcott » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:03 pm

Good post Zip....

Fair enough. We hope you do thank Banned when he proves himself. Sorry if you were miffed for us not picking you Zip but in the end we can only pick one person. We chose Banned because we do believe he respects Evolution8 and I and he will make a serious effort to operate within the philosophy of this site. Even though his posting history indicates he is an utter pagan we really believe deep down inside he cares about us and this site. Also we care about him. We have cared and prayed for Banned for a long time and when he shares about his life and difficulties (wrists, relationships, etc....) we care and we want to support him.

Even though he is often posting to the contrary of what we believe, he does so within the rules (you can check his entire posting history and it speaks for itself). He has attacked my values and ideas ferociously but he has never gone over the line. He respects the admins and most importantly he understands and respects our philosophy.

Giving Banned the mod position is not an endorsement as to what his lifestyle is. To the contrary, neither Banned nor anyone else should be under any illusion that I would not hesitate to criminalize his porn collection and deny his girlfriend the right to kill their unborn child in an instant if I could. Evolution8 and I pray for Banned's conversion and we would be elated if he repents of his sin and comes to Christ one day. Giving Banned this position is a statement Evolution8 and I value him. We do believe he has the maturity and respect to not abuse the mod position. Already he has been a blessing to you whether you realize it or not. He deleted two porn spams that I am aware of today. I work long hours and Evolution8 and Tory can't be here all the time. If we were not deleting this stuff on a regular basis you would not enjoy this site as you do now. We are hit with hard core porn at least a half dozen and sometimes more times each day. I hope you stop and think what that would look like after a few days if Banned, Evolution8 and Tory were not working on getting rid of that porn each day. His first day on the job he got rid of two of those for you. That really is something to be thankful for. I realize some might find our choice of Banned to be a surprise and controversial. Please trust our judgement and give him a chance. We have been observing him and we believe we made the right choice. For those who are concerned about what kind of job Banned will do we ask that you pray for him. (We know he likes prayers even if it conflicts with the heathen in him) ;-)

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They are not mutually exclusive. If fact I would suggest that given how free speech is under attack from a number of sides in Canada I would suggest the defining difference between liberalism and conservatism is that the former believe in censorship while the latter do not.


I mostly agree. In fact there are certain types of censorship I do believe in. I am unambiguous in my support for censoring porn. I will never allow it on this site in a million years. I would ban over Satanism and blasphemies of my Lord and Saviour. Political and religious speech of the sort my non Christians engage in here must be allowed in a democracy. Banned is certainly free to argue his leftoid views as mod. He might voluntarily moderate himself so not to offend members here, but I certainly do not expect that of him and I only expect him to repudiate his views when Christ sincerely changes him from the inside. I would literally rather lose every member of this site rather than force Banned to be a hypocrite and argue for what he does not believe in. The mission of my site is Christian and I really want to promote religious freedom and free speech which is fundamental to our democracy. To do that effectively we have to walk the walk. I am a conservative Christian and nothing has changed in that regard with Banned's appointment as mod. I don't believe as Christians we should discriminate against non-Christians when they are doing a good service. Banned has been good to our site and he earned his appointment.

I sure don't want Ben to leave. I always enjoyed his posts. If he can let go of his anger towards Evolution8 and I, we will certainly bury our anger over the discipline issue we had with him. He was an asset in countering Banned's horrid opinions on nearly every topic.
Last edited by Bill Whatcott on Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

Postby Tory_canuck » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:17 pm

m just happy I have somebody to help me moderate the site.I cant do it alone.I have a job and other things to do, so every bit helps, regardless of who is giving the help.
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Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

Postby Ben Kenobi » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:27 am

They are not mutually exclusive. If fact I would suggest that given how free speech is under attack from a number of sides in Canada I would suggest the defining difference between liberalism and conservatism is that the former believe in censorship while the latter do not.


If you believe that why would you support a liberal being in the position where they can exercise censorship?

I have nothing against liberal thoughts, but the position of leadership is an important one, better to not have it at all then have the wrong person there.
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Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

Postby Ben Kenobi » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:32 am

Christians are free to share the Gospel here. I certainly will. But I am not interested in your vision of deleting every thread you found disagreeable.


Obviously, which is why I deleted threads right left and centre.

I'm appalled you have to go out of your way to lie Bill, rather then simply tell the truth.

I asked you not to do that and you did it anyways. You said you would live with the consequence. Obviously the consequence is you will no longer be moderator. This is not dictatorial. This is the logical response to someone who felt they knew better and disregarded the wishes of the owner of this site.


Then why not tell the truth Bill? I allowed a great deal of posts on this site which I personally disagree with, and found offensive for a variety of reasons. Where we disagree is that I believe that offensive posts should be deleted when they are worthy of a ban, whereas you would allow them to stay up. I don't think posts which insult valued members of the forum are worthy of the same protections we accord thoughts to whom we disagree.

If you examined my record impartially, you would see considerable evidence that wherever possible I avoided deletion except where I felt absolutely necessary, I always consulted with you beforehand and informed you of what had happened. I never tried to hide my actions or conceal them from you.

Anyways your call Ben. As disappointed and angry as Evolution8 and I were (as you deleted posts I sorely wanted to keep) we forgave you and rescinded our ban of you. If you wish to leave its your call. Democracy means you come and go as you choose. We were fair to you. More than fair as you deleted things you weren't supposed to before. Inspite of your pity party you should grow up and realize you were not fair to us.


Your initial response was an outright ban. That was how you dealt with the situation.

Unlike you I haven't lied about the situation as it stood. I'm rather disappointed that you feel the need to lie about my conduct as a moderator in order to shore up your support here.
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Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

Postby Ben Kenobi » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:47 am

Ben you are making a mistake by not staying on as a normal contributor. Being an administrator has certain constraints, in case you didn't know. You can't really voice your opinion as well as just being a poster.


I'm well aware of that, but the situation isn't as you suppose. I never asked to be a moderator, Bill asked me to be one and the idea was that I would be here from the inception of the site. Sadly, Bill changed his mind.

Being a moderator means you have to stay out of the thick of things. You can't really enter into a good, solid debate with your opinions or true feelings BECAUSE that is not done by moderators nor adminstrators.


That assumes that my opinions and thoughts about how this site ought to be run, and my comments will be appreciated by the management. Saucy Hot Tabasco was just banned now for her comments. Ergo, I don't feel free to state my thoughts and feelings as I would on other forums.

They have to be neutral in order to enfore rules. What fun is that???


What fun is it to post somewhere that you aren't wanted?

Ben you took that authority of moderator and abused it. You don't delete posts when you are told not to by the owner -- think of it as a "job". Would you do something your boss told you not to do because you thought you knew better? You would lose your job, if you did.


That's a good point. I am a moderator at another site where I post without incident with the administration there. The difference being that I am allowed to exercise my judgement as to which posts ought to stay and which should not. Over time he trusts my judgement and we have an understanding of how things ought to be run. I've been a moderator at there far longer then I've been one here, and I'm still there now, despite the way the wind blows here.

I feel I have a duty and a responsibility to do my job to the best of my ability. Any order that would come, even from Bill, that would not allow me to do my job to the best of my ability I feel I have an obligation to ignore. That's called professionalism. They will be many times that an employee is asked to do things contrary to professional ethics for a variety of reasons, it may make someone a better employee to follow directives, but that does not mean they are a better person for doing so.

I honestly felt that I did what I ought to have done given the situation and that it was a narrow instance in which Bill's unwieldy rule of no deletions ought not to apply. I still feel that now. I'm glad I made the decision that I did, and that I have my conscience intact for not following Bill's order.

When the time comes that I feel I can't contribute here in a positive way or completely disagree on the way the site is being run -- I will leave.


That Zip, is how I feel, and why I have left.
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Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

Postby Ben Kenobi » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:52 am

Even though he is often posting to the contrary of what we believe, he does so within the rules (you can check his entire posting history and it speaks for itself). He has attacked my values and ideas ferociously but he has never gone over the line. He respects the admins and most importantly he understands and respects our philosophy.


As opposed to the rest of us here?

Why don't you tell people the real reason that Banned was chosen? He asked for the job.

It's a good rule Bill, not to appoint anyone who requests the job. You'll see why I'm sure in a few months.
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Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

Postby zip.com » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:13 am

\"Ben Kenobi\" wrote:
Even though he is often posting to the contrary of what we believe, he does so within the rules (you can check his entire posting history and it speaks for itself). He has attacked my values and ideas ferociously but he has never gone over the line. He respects the admins and most importantly he understands and respects our philosophy.


As opposed to the rest of us here?

Why don't you tell people the real reason that Banned was chosen? He asked for the job.

It's a good rule Bill, not to appoint anyone who requests the job. You'll see why I'm sure in a few months.


Thank you Ben for coming back and explaining your side of this story. Of course, there are always 2 sides.

I have felt since the inception of Banned as "moderator" -- something was not right. I didn't know what it was.....I just felt it.

I have discussed with Bill this "moderator" and the way he conducts himself which is totally unprofessional and disgusting, at times.

Bill defends his "choice" to the end. I didn't know Banned asked for the job --that throws a whole different light on this issue.

In any event, I got flak from Bill and accused of NOT wanting free speech --well, ONLY if I approved it. That was such slap in the face, that I now have a totally different view of Bill, this website and what is starting to go on around here.

I have contributed, positively, from the start to this website. Hoping to build a Christian viewpoint that even pagans will respect.

I know I have a temper, at times, everyone has seen it. That is my "thorn in the side" and I did apologize over the "nickjbor" incident.

I will NOT, however, allow other posters, such as Yeh, to come on here and defame Christianity and all the things that I hold sacred, all in the name of "intelligent debate"! Intelligent my ass -- it was outright disrespectful and the things posted here were an insult to Catholics and Christians. So, that being said, I protested outright which is my style. I never mince words and I get my point across as clearly as I can.

Anyway, I have decided not to post here as regularly as I have been doing. I see another element working behind the scenes here, and I don't like it.

Thanks Ben, once again, for affirming what I thought anyway.

God Bless you, keep in touch eh? Let me know where you are posting now.

Your sister in Christ,

Brenda
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Hate Crimes Unit called over Ed Stelmach and anal warts

Postby zip.com » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:16 am

\"Ben Kenobi\" wrote:
It's a good rule Bill, not to appoint anyone who requests the job. You'll see why I'm sure in a few months.


One more thing, that is SO funny or prescient? I said the about the same thing to Bill in my last email to him. I told him if things continued on with this "moderator" he will see an exodus of posters from this site. He, Evolution and Banned might have to post amongst themselves -- hope they like it. :mrgreen:
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